In today's Friday Know-It-All, Content Creator Tony takes us to school — clown school, that is.

I’m afraid I never gave much thought to clowning for much of my life. As a form of comedy, it felt dead. When was the last time you saw a clown in real life? Or in a movie? You have to go to Washington Freaking D.C. to see them anymore!! (Don’t worry, I’ll get more into politics later.)

But clowning is still with us — just in different forms that we don’t associate with clowning. This became clear to me when comedian and podcaster Anders Lee pointed out on his hit show “Pod Damn America” that Sacha Baron Cohen is a trained clown, and that the entirety of “Borat” was basically just clowning. We can see it in this short video (heads up: language) by internet person David Dobrik, who, at 35, I am too old to know about otherwise.

Maybe this point is obvious to others, but it was a revelation to me. Suddenly, I started seeing characters like Andy Dwyer from “Parks and Recreation” or Charlie Kelly from “It’s Always Sunny” and thinking “Oh, that’s clown stuff.” Is that a correct assessment, or are these things just clown-adjacent? I’m not sure, but even if I’m wrong, this has led to a higher awareness of clowning on my end.

Clowning was on my mind so much so that during International Clown Week back in August, I put together a round about clown-trained actors. But I couldn’t stop clowning around just at Trivia Mafia, no. I had to find out more about clown colleges — or clown vocational programs, or seminars, or any other sort of training. To do that, I reached out to the leading expert on clown training (among the people who were willing to conduct an interview within a mile from my house): Anders Lee.

Lee got introduced to clowning — by which we mean exclusively a traditional European style of clowning, which isn’t quite what you’d see at an American circus — about a year into doing stand-up comedy on the New York circuit. It was there in a Manhattan basement where Lee got hooked on clowning.

What happens in an underground clowning class? At least in this particular basement, a crazy, Irish clown named Ed belittles you and points out all the ways in which you are not funny.

That sounds non-constructive, but it’s the opposite. Getting that sort of specific, real-time feedback is invaluable for a comedian. An audience may laugh at you, or not, in the moment. But unless you ask everyone after a show, you aren’t going to know what caused their reaction. Other comics could help give you feedback, but being primarily joke-writers, they tend to focus on the content of the joke, rather than its performance.

“You’ll run around in a circle and do a lot of [theater] games, and Ed will stop you and yell at you,” Lee says about the rhythms of the class. “It’s all in good fun, although it’s not for everybody, and some people end up getting really offended and crying.”

It was fun for Lee, though, who teamed up with Ed for one-on-one sessions where Ed coached him through his act. This kind of coaching got extremely in-depth. “Something as subtle as the movement of a shoulder [could make Ed say] ‘Oooh, I didn’t like that, don’t do that,” Lee detailed. “It’s very granular stuff, but when you do enough of it, eventually you don’t think about it and you’re able to be in the moment and be funny.”

Optionally, you also may have stayed after the classes to read, discuss, and debate the revolutionary philosophy of Leon Trotsky, who Ed was a big fan of at the time. Be warned that if you seek out a New York clown teacher, your experience may vary.

Lee has also traveled to France to train under Philippe Gaulier, the most famous clown instructor in the world. In addition to teaching Lee for a mini-course, Gaulier’s alumni include Cohen, Emma Thompson, and Helena Bonham Carter. It even includes a short time training Hillary and Chelsea Clinton for their 2022 docu-series “Gutsy.”

“Presumably somewhere out there, there’s footage of the entire class, and I really would love to get my hands on that,” mused Lee, before explaining why the pairing between the combative clown and former Secretary of State would be appointment viewing, if ever released in full.

Gaulier, 81, could perhaps be considered “The Bad Boy Of Clowning,” as his divisive, insult-forward teaching style created a reputation that Lee was well aware of heading into the class. “I had one friend who’s a comedian who studied under it for two years. It helped him, it made him really funny, but he regrets doing it, and he hates this man,” Lee told me. “He says ‘I wake up every day and it feels like there is cancer in my soul from this guy.’

“He changed my friend’s personality, but he didn’t want to be changed in that way, and he resents him.”

Others in Lee’s circle vouched for Gaulier’s methods, however. “I had friends who said, ‘Do it, it’s a beautiful experience, he’s a beautiful man, and you’ll learn a lot.’” Lee split the difference and signed up for a two-week course. He quickly found out that Gaulier didn’t have much respect for Lee’s chosen comedic path. After one class, he asked the teacher why he didn’t like stand-up comedians.

In order to drive home Gauliers response, you’ll have to recite his words in your best French accent, as Lee did when recalling his response: “I didn’t say ‘I don’t like,’” Lee quoted the clown. “‘I hate. I hate stand-up comedians.’”

Gaulier was kind enough to elaborate why. “His reasoning was that stand-ups are only funny, in his words, ‘on the blah-blah-blah,’” Lee explained. “When we’re delivering a joke, it’s comedy time, but when the joke is over, [there’s nothing].”

Still, despite being tough — and while Ed could belittle a performer, Gaulier perfected the art — Lee did earn a hard-won laugh from the grizzled clown teacher. Still, you can only accomplish so much in two weeks, which means that Lee is left without answers for some of clowning’s most existential questions.

As part of the class, Lee says, “You have to go into Paris and find a costume for your clown. Gaulier kind of gathers the essence of what your clown is, and told me ‘You’re a cowboy.’ So I got a cowboy outfit and then later he says, ‘Your clown is not a cowboy.’ So I never found out what my clown is.”

The sessions were intense, but the shared experience of going through the harsh, real-time feedback from Gaulier created a sense of camaraderie between the students outside of the classroom. “For those two weeks, the best jokes and the most fun I had was after you’re done for the day. Everyone would go to this bar and joke around. Because we’ve spent the past few hours being belittled, it’s very tough, but afterward, there’s kind of a relief. You’re hanging out, but you’re still using the stuff you learned, just in a more casual setting.”

When Lee returned to New York, he found many near-imperceptible changes that improved his act. Better yet, his soul came out unscathed and his personality was fundamentally intact. His verdict? “I recommend doing it, but again, it’s not for everybody.”

We’ve scrolled down pretty far, so I’ll leave you with a quick lightning round:

Q: Have you been able to get strict clowning work?

Lee: When I went to clown school, there was a guy I worked with who said, “I’m gonna hire you for my son’s birthday when you get back.” I’m not sure what I would’ve done, I’d have had to get the outfit and learned to make balloons. But I’m glad he didn’t follow up.

Q: American clowning seems circus- or birthday-party-centric. What does a working European clown do?

Lee: They do live shows. There are people who go to see that, particularly in France. There are multiple clown schools in Paris, it’s a whole part of the culture. It’s also pretty common to do what I did and try to incorporate clowning into some other performing art.

Q: This is extremely important: Do you get a degree or certificate for clown training?

Lee: Yes, there is one. I think I lost it. But you do get a certificate, even for the two-week course.

Q: What’s the difference between traditional improv games and clowning-specific theater games?

Lee: You have to take turns trying to make people laugh in a couple of seconds without using any words, which is really difficult. Or you’re walking around, and you have to stop and do an impression of someone, or talk in a certain way that’s outside your own affect. Stuff like that.

Q: What was your go-to move when you had to make someone laugh in three seconds?

Lee: This is probably the only time I’d say I made Philippe laugh. I have — I guess a talent? — where I can make a gross noise with my throat. [He makes it, it’s indeed gross.] And I can also make a grotesque face with my neck, and also move my scalp and ears at the same time. So I just did all those things at once.

Thanks again to Anders Lee for his time, and to you, dear readers, for yours.